From thomas at thosmos.com Wed May 2 18:53:23 2007 From: thomas at thosmos.com (Thomas Spellman) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 18:53:23 -0700 Subject: [Energy] The 660 Gallon Brewery Fuel Cell Message-ID: <000801c78d25$d5e68830$4a01a8c0@gothos> Slashdot Slashdot The 660 Gallon Brewery Fuel Cell An anonymous reader writes "Australia's University of Queensland has secured a $115,000 grant for a 660-gallon fuel cell that should produce 2 kilowatts of power. A prototype has been operating at the university laboratory for three months. This fuel cell type is essentially a battery in which bacteria consume water-soluble brewing waste such as sugar, starch and alcohol, plus in this instance produces clean water." Read more of this story at Slashdot. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.apple-nc.org/pipermail/energy/attachments/20070502/fb3a0204/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 2052 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.apple-nc.org/pipermail/energy/attachments/20070502/fb3a0204/attachment.gif From pcurrents at mountainastrologer.com Sun May 6 09:47:57 2007 From: pcurrents at mountainastrologer.com (Tem Tarriktar) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 09:47:57 -0700 Subject: [Energy] Blume's ethanol book coming out Message-ID: <69E342E6-5771-4E4B-B6C7-C6C10572DAFE@mountainastrologer.com> From Energy Bulletin... The Book That Oil Companies Don?t Want You To Know About Randy White, Lawns to Gardens America, if you are tired of high prices for fuel, food, and just about everything else, boy do I have the book for you. David Blume?s Alcohol Can Be A Gas is nothing less than the playbook for saving America. You heard me right. This is it - the plan to free ourselves from our present oil challenges while raising the standards of living for citizens at the same time. The book points the way with facts, figures, and real life examples of post-petroleum businesses that can be had in the alcohol fuel revolution. The realization that a small scale producer is now a viable economic possibility and that after peak oil, alcohol will be as good or better than money based on oil. ? That?s why oil companies don?t want you to know about this book. Alcohol Can Be A Gas reveals so many energy industry secrets, I?m surprised David Blume hasn?t been hauled off to a secret prison in Poland by oil company mercenaries. For over twenty five years, Blume has meticulously gathered information that will make any reader realize just how much Americans have been duped into supporting a food and energy system dependent on fossil fuel inputs, namely oil (though things are starting to look more promising). The author weaves the entire history of alcohol fuel like a thrilling novel, detailing how alcohol has been used as a renewable fuel from before Henry Ford to present day. Blume?s detailed plan contained in the book gives Americans an equal opportunity to fix the country by ourselves. The book details everything needed to enhance local living, free ourselves from oil, create jobs, ensure food security, make money, help slow global warming, and redirect funds from oil wars. Skeptical? I was. As a member of Portland Oregon?s Peak Oil Task Force, I know enough about Peak Oil to understand Alcohol Can Be A Gas is a top solution for truly solving many of our country?s challenges. Blume shares innovative solutions with readers, backing up his writing with research that instills inspirational pragmatic optimism for the future. Does Blume?s plan solve all of our energy problems? Probably not. But in a sea of energy despair, corrupt politicians, and oil dependency, Alcohol Can Be A Gas offers an excellent plan to follow. (2 May 2007) Reviewer Randy White is a marketing person - can you tell? In any case, it's good to see that David Blume's book is finally to be released. David Blume is a permaculture teacher and a long-time advocate of ethanol as a fuel. His book apparently takes a different approach than industrial corn ethanol, and so is perhaps worth a read. -BA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.apple-nc.org/pipermail/energy/attachments/20070506/22ce75c8/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ACBAG.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 44167 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.apple-nc.org/pipermail/energy/attachments/20070506/22ce75c8/attachment.jpg From pcurrents at mountainastrologer.com Mon May 14 17:47:57 2007 From: pcurrents at mountainastrologer.com (Tem Tarriktar) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 17:47:57 -0700 Subject: [Energy] Fwd: New documentary "Energy Crossroads" References: <8CFEE672-2268-47CA-8E5B-062F36454738@tiroirafilms.net> Message-ID: <44E12507-8C35-4B04-9015-891FD077A58A@mountainastrologer.com> Passing on this info about a new film on Energy Use. --Tem Begin forwarded message: > From: Chris Fauchere > Date: May 14, 2007 12:50:25 PM PDT > To: info at apple-nc.org > Subject: New documentary "Energy Crossroads" > > Hello, > > We are a Denver based video production company. We completed > recently a documentary entitled ?Energy Crossroads: A burning need > to change course?. The film exposes the problems associated with > our energy consumption on our environment, the global economy, and > the geopolitical balance in the world today. It also brings to > light concrete solutions to ease these damaging effects. The > documentary features passionate individuals, entrepreneurs, experts > and scientists at the forefront of their field bringing legitimacy > and expertise to the core message of the piece. > > Here are some reviews: > > The movie is compelling and empowering, as it is one of the first > to comprehensively cover the key aspects of the energy/environment/ > economy dilemma. ?Energy Crossroads? is a graphic tour de force > that will compel you to share the experience.? > > - Morey Wolfson, MW Energy Solutions LLC (ASPO-USA) > > Tiroir A Films has just released a DVD for when End of Suburbia > just won't do. Energy Crossroads does well what it sets out to do - > providing Americans with an accurate, comprehensive picture of the > two biggest crises of our era. I'll be loaning my copy out quite a > bit. > > - Bart Anderson co-editor of Energy Bulletin. > > ?Energy Crossroads offers huge potential for my community and has > me encouraged for the first time in a long time.? > > - Anita Laurin, Coordinator, Central Ohio Relocalization Effort > > The documentary is a great tool that your organization can use to > reach and educate your community. > > For more information go to the following URL : www.energyxroads.com. > > Let me know if you have any questions. > > Sincerely, > > Chris Fauchere > > Tiroir A Films Productions -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.apple-nc.org/pipermail/energy/attachments/20070514/fff2522a/attachment.html From thomas at thosmos.com Mon May 21 21:56:48 2007 From: thomas at thosmos.com (Thomas Spellman) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 21:56:48 -0700 Subject: [Energy] Amory Lovins energy talks In-Reply-To: <00df01c79bf3$c03893c0$41fe0fce@lew> References: <00df01c79bf3$c03893c0$41fe0fce@lew> Message-ID: <017c01c79c2d$9b89cff0$1600a8c0@gothos> Here are some great energy talks by my hero, Amory Lovins: 2 short promo pieces: Tom Friedman interview, Addicted to Oil: http://youtube.com/watch?v=imfHBcqzLfI Solutions with Rocky Mountain Institute's Amory Lovin's http://youtube.com/watch?v=Kw82Dl6mnwAv 2 longer pieces: Full Inteview on Charlie Rose: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4569577556800822039 &q=amory+lovins In depth MIT lecture on details from the Winning the Oil Endgame book - packed with large scale transportation solutions: http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/346/ (the book is available in PDF format free on the website - very packed - http://www.oilendgame.com/index.html) A new series of 5 90min lectures on advanced energy efficiency at Stanford just going up on Google Video. These are very in depth, "high bandwidth" and GREAT! Lecture 1: Buildings http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6669123891673213585 Lecture 2: Industry http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=493333910365311163 Lecture 3: Transportation not up? Lecture 4: Implementation http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3435341384617356024v Lecture 5: Implications not up? T -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.apple-nc.org/pipermail/energy/attachments/20070521/250e609a/attachment.html From pcurrents at mountainastrologer.com Wed May 23 17:21:18 2007 From: pcurrents at mountainastrologer.com (Tem Tarriktar) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 17:21:18 -0700 Subject: [Energy] Fwd: Nevada County Energy Consumption References: <004a01c79d76$d050b380$3869ef45@sunlightpower> Message-ID: Hi everyone -- sharing these 2006 PG&E energy figures that Dave Clark found for APPLE. So you can compare, here are the 2005 figures (not broken down into commercial vs. residential). It looks like gas use increased 7.5 percent and electricity use increased 4 percent, from 2005 to 2006. --Tem 2005 energy use for all of Nevada County: # of electric customers = 41,117 Total KWH = 481,274,362 # of natural gas customers = 11,251 Total decatherms = 899,110 Total therms = 8,991,100 Begin forwarded message: > From: "Dave Clark" > Date: May 23, 2007 1:13:21 PM PDT > Subject: FW: Nevada County Energy Consumption > > Here?s the info for 2006. Feel free to pass along as needed. > > --- Dave > > From: Cooper, Ken (Svc Analysis) [mailto:KPC2 at pge.com] > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:06 AM > To: Dave Clark > Subject: Nevada County Energy Consumption > > > > Good Morning Dave - Per your request is the 2006 gas and electric > consumption for Nevada County. > > > > Natural Gas 10,044 Residential Customers 629,585.4 > DecaTherms > 1,581 Non-Residential Customers 337,936.6 > DecaTherms > > Electricity 36,746 Residential Customers 336,214,505 > Kwh > 5,107 Non-Residential Customers 164,468,216 > Kwh > > Take care, > > Ken Cooper > PG&E > > Ofc - (209) 576-6522 > Cell - (209) 648-1813 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.apple-nc.org/pipermail/energy/attachments/20070523/b96dc25f/attachment.html From reinettesenum at mac.com Thu May 24 09:51:38 2007 From: reinettesenum at mac.com (Reinette Senum) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 09:51:38 -0700 Subject: [Energy] [BOD] Fwd: Nevada County Energy Consumption In-Reply-To: References: <004a01c79d76$d050b380$3869ef45@sunlightpower> Message-ID: <69B480BA-0112-1000-91D8-B1D11A99735A-Webmail-10022@mac.com> Hey Everybody, These figures are amazing. Is there anyway we can take them and put them into "laymen" terms - using some kind of analogy - and put them on the APPLE website? This, I think, would be very powerful. Perhaps we could also do a calculation of how much carbon emissions collectively and per person we emit. What do you guys think? Tom? Could we do this? Maybe start a community campaign via the Low Carbon Diet and lower our emissions and keep track of it on the APPLE website... Reinette On Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 05:22PM, "Tem Tarriktar" wrote: >Hi everyone -- sharing these 2006 PG&E energy figures that Dave Clark >found for APPLE. >So you can compare, here are the 2005 figures (not broken down into >commercial vs. residential). >It looks like gas use increased 7.5 percent and electricity use >increased 4 percent, from 2005 to 2006. >--Tem > >2005 energy use for all of Nevada County: ># of electric customers = 41,117 >Total KWH = 481,274,362 ># of natural gas customers = 11,251 >Total decatherms = 899,110 >Total therms = 8,991,100 > > >Begin forwarded message: > >> From: "Dave Clark" >> Date: May 23, 2007 1:13:21 PM PDT >> Subject: FW: Nevada County Energy Consumption >> >> Here?s the info for 2006. Feel free to pass along as needed. >> >> --- Dave >> >> From: Cooper, Ken (Svc Analysis) [mailto:KPC2 at pge.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:06 AM >> To: Dave Clark >> Subject: Nevada County Energy Consumption >> >> >> >> Good Morning Dave - Per your request is the 2006 gas and electric >> consumption for Nevada County. >> >> >> >> Natural Gas 10,044 Residential Customers 629,585.4 >> DecaTherms >> 1,581 Non-Residential Customers 337,936.6 >> DecaTherms >> >> Electricity 36,746 Residential Customers 336,214,505 >> Kwh >> 5,107 Non-Residential Customers 164,468,216 >> Kwh >> >> Take care, >> >> Ken Cooper >> PG&E >> >> Ofc - (209) 576-6522 >> Cell - (209) 648-1813 >> >> > > From RayDarby at SustainableEnergyGroup.com Thu May 24 10:59:52 2007 From: RayDarby at SustainableEnergyGroup.com (Ray Darby) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 10:59:52 -0700 Subject: [Energy] [BOD] Fwd: Nevada County Energy Consumption References: <004a01c79d76$d050b380$3869ef45@sunlightpower> <69B480BA-0112-1000-91D8-B1D11A99735A-Webmail-10022@mac.com> Message-ID: <009401c79e2d$54f46c10$6501a8c0@rayslaptop> The devil's in the details. The proper approach to a problem like this is to first define what specific goals APPLE has in mind and then look for the data needed to support those goals. For example, when I developed the cool roof rebate program for California I needed to know what commercial occupancy types existed in California, the cooling energy of each occupancy type (schools are different than retail which is different than offices, etc), what roof r-values they had, and other information in order to estimate the potential savings associated with retrofitting existing buildings with cool roofs. It took quite a lot of research and analysis to come up with a rough result because the details simply weren't there. A lot of "informed assumptions" were necessary along the way. As a result, you can probably appreciate that the total amount of cooling energy (note this is more specific than electricity total) used by commercial buildings in California alone wouldn't have been very useful for projecting potential savings for cool roofs in California. Hopefully this helps illustrate the point I'm hoping to make... Gross (total) figures like these, while readily available and relatively easy to find, unfortunately aren't generally very useful for most purposes I'm imagining APPLE is interested in. For example, it's not easy (maybe not even possible) to accurately disaggregate such totals into residential and commercial use which would be useful for "household level" (or "commercial building") analysis. In addition to natural gas it's important to realize that a large part of Nevada County gas use is propane (not included in the Natural Gas figures) due to the rural nature of our community and, additionally, a lot of residential space heating in Nevada County is done with wood. The idea of using a gas & electricity total figure for Nevada County to illustrate CO2 generated here is one use I can think of but, then, what would it be compared to and how would it be translated into useful "laymans terms?" I've worked a lot with the State of California on defining what a "typical" or "pick your vintage" residential or commercial (then "pick your occupancy type") building uses in terms of energy and for what (ie, heating, cooling, water heating, lighting etc). This is the sort of data I think we're looking for. Knowing the (disaggregated) "base case" information then allows one to say "OK, if we changed x% of the existing building stock of (pick occupancy type/vintage) to use more efficient space heating it would save $Y and reduce CO2 by Z%." As a result what we need first is to define what it is we want to address (ie, is it the potential for an average NC home to save energy cost effectively?). Then we'd look for the data needed to do such an analysis. Generally speaking it's easiest when a lot of research has already been done by others (like utilitys or energy commission) with respect to the specific parameters needed given the focus of the analysis. Hope this helps! - Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reinette Senum" To: "APPLE-NC Board of Directors" Cc: "Janaia Donaldson" ; "APPLE-NC Board of Directors" ; "Ray Darby" ; "Energy group" Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [Energy] [BOD] Fwd: Nevada County Energy Consumption > Hey Everybody, > > These figures are amazing. Is there anyway we can take them and put them into "laymen" terms - using some kind of analogy - and put them on the APPLE website? This, I think, would be very powerful. Perhaps we could also do a calculation of how much carbon emissions collectively and per person we emit. > > What do you guys think? > > Tom? Could we do this? Maybe start a community campaign via the Low Carbon Diet and lower our emissions and keep track of it on the APPLE website... > > Reinette > > > On Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 05:22PM, "Tem Tarriktar" wrote: >>Hi everyone -- sharing these 2006 PG&E energy figures that Dave Clark >>found for APPLE. >>So you can compare, here are the 2005 figures (not broken down into >>commercial vs. residential). >>It looks like gas use increased 7.5 percent and electricity use >>increased 4 percent, from 2005 to 2006. >>--Tem >> >>2005 energy use for all of Nevada County: >># of electric customers = 41,117 >>Total KWH = 481,274,362 >># of natural gas customers = 11,251 >>Total decatherms = 899,110 >>Total therms = 8,991,100 >> >> >>Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "Dave Clark" >>> Date: May 23, 2007 1:13:21 PM PDT >>> Subject: FW: Nevada County Energy Consumption >>> >>> Here?s the info for 2006. Feel free to pass along as needed. >>> >>> --- Dave >>> >>> From: Cooper, Ken (Svc Analysis) [mailto:KPC2 at pge.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:06 AM >>> To: Dave Clark >>> Subject: Nevada County Energy Consumption >>> >>> >>> >>> Good Morning Dave - Per your request is the 2006 gas and electric >>> consumption for Nevada County. >>> >>> >>> >>> Natural Gas 10,044 Residential Customers 629,585.4 >>> DecaTherms >>> 1,581 Non-Residential Customers 337,936.6 >>> DecaTherms >>> >>> Electricity 36,746 Residential Customers 336,214,505 >>> Kwh >>> 5,107 Non-Residential Customers 164,468,216 >>> Kwh >>> >>> Take care, >>> >>> Ken Cooper >>> PG&E >>> >>> Ofc - (209) 576-6522 >>> Cell - (209) 648-1813 >>> >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Energy mailing list > Energy at apple-nc.org > http://lists.apple-nc.org/mailman/listinfo/energy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.apple-nc.org/pipermail/energy/attachments/20070524/f506fe99/attachment.html From caver456 at gmail.com Thu May 24 11:35:57 2007 From: caver456 at gmail.com (Tom Grundy) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 11:35:57 -0700 Subject: [Energy] [BOD] Fwd: Nevada County Energy Consumption In-Reply-To: <009401c79e2d$54f46c10$6501a8c0@rayslaptop> References: <004a01c79d76$d050b380$3869ef45@sunlightpower> <69B480BA-0112-1000-91D8-B1D11A99735A-Webmail-10022@mac.com> <009401c79e2d$54f46c10$6501a8c0@rayslaptop> Message-ID: Hola Ray - our "primary target" for this info is a Public Info Sheet on the Idaho Maryland Mine and Golden Bear Ceramics. We've got a committee to make that info sheet ASAP. If you've got any input that would be a big help. I've been trying to get more specific web addresses for both GV's and Emgold's numbers on energy usage of the proposed projects - I know they're somewhere in the GV and emgold web pages but more specific addresses would help. Using those numbers, along with the PG&E county numbers, we could come up with interesting comparisons in a user-friendly shock-and-awe manner. Of course this info could be a perfect starting point for all sorts of other projects like you mentioned. The idea farm is always open... Thanks for the good points. -Tom On 5/24/07, Ray Darby wrote: > > The devil's in the details. The proper approach to a problem like this > is to first define what *specific goals* APPLE has in mind and *then* look > for the data needed to support those goals. > > For example, when I developed the cool roof rebate program for California > I needed to know what commercial occupancy types existed in California, the > *cooling energy* of each occupancy type (schools are *different* than > retail which is *different* than offices, etc), what roof r-values they > had, and other information in order to estimate the potential savings > associated with retrofitting existing buildings with cool roofs. It took > quite a lot of research and analysis to come up with a *rough* result > because the details simply weren't there. A lot of "informed assumptions" > were necessary along the way. As a result, you can probably appreciate that > the total amount of *cooling* energy (note this is more specific than *electricity > total*) used by commercial buildings in California alone *wouldn't* have > been very useful for projecting potential savings for cool roofs in > California. Hopefully this helps illustrate the point I'm hoping to make... > > Gross (total) figures like these, while readily available and relatively > easy to find, unfortunately aren't generally very useful for most purposes > I'm imagining APPLE is interested in. For example, it's not easy (maybe > not even possible) to accurately disaggregate such totals into residential > and commercial use which would be useful for "household level" (or > "commercial building") analysis. In addition to natural gas it's important > to realize that a large part of Nevada County gas use is *propane* (not > included in the Natural Gas figures) due to the rural nature of our > community and, additionally, a lot of residential space heating in Nevada > County is done with wood. The idea of using a gas & electricity total > figure for Nevada County to illustrate CO2 generated here *is* one use I > can think of but, then, what would it be compared to and how would it be > translated into useful "laymans terms?" > > I've worked a lot with the State of California on defining what a > "typical" or "pick your vintage" residential or commercial (then "pick your > occupancy type") building uses in terms of energy and for what (ie, heating, > cooling, water heating, lighting etc). *This* is the sort of data I think > we're looking for. Knowing the (disaggregated) "base case" information then > allows one to say "OK, if we changed x% of the existing building stock of > (pick occupancy type/vintage) to use more efficient space heating it would > save $Y and reduce CO2 by Z%." > > As a result what we need *first* is to define what it is we want to > address (ie, is it the potential for an average NC home to save energy cost > effectively?). *Then* we'd look for the data needed to do such an > analysis. Generally speaking it's easiest when a lot of research has > already been done by others (like utilitys or energy commission) with > respect to the specific parameters needed given the focus of the analysis. > > Hope this helps! > > - Ray > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Reinette Senum" > To: "APPLE-NC Board of Directors" > Cc: "Janaia Donaldson" ; "APPLE-NC Board of > Directors" ; "Ray Darby" < > RayDarby at Sustainableenergygroup.com>; "Energy group" > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 9:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Energy] [BOD] Fwd: Nevada County Energy Consumption > > > Hey Everybody, > > > > These figures are amazing. Is there anyway we can take them and put them > into "laymen" terms - using some kind of analogy - and put them on the APPLE > website? This, I think, would be very powerful. Perhaps we could also do a > calculation of how much carbon emissions collectively and per person we > emit. > > > > What do you guys think? > > > > Tom? Could we do this? Maybe start a community campaign via the Low > Carbon Diet and lower our emissions and keep track of it on the APPLE > website... > > > > Reinette > > > > > > On Wednesday, May 23, 2007, at 05:22PM, "Tem Tarriktar" < > pcurrents at mountainastrologer.com> wrote: > >>Hi everyone -- sharing these 2006 PG&E energy figures that Dave Clark > >>found for APPLE. > >>So you can compare, here are the 2005 figures (not broken down into > >>commercial vs. residential). > >>It looks like gas use increased 7.5 percent and electricity use > >>increased 4 percent, from 2005 to 2006. > >>--Tem > >> > >>2005 energy use for all of Nevada County: > >># of electric customers = 41,117 > >>Total KWH = 481,274,362 > >># of natural gas customers = 11,251 > >>Total decatherms = 899,110 > >>Total therms = 8,991,100 > >> > >> > >>Begin forwarded message: > >> > >>> From: "Dave Clark" > >>> Date: May 23, 2007 1:13:21 PM PDT > >>> Subject: FW: Nevada County Energy Consumption > >>> > >>> Here?s the info for 2006. Feel free to pass along as needed. > >>> > >>> --- Dave > >>> > >>> From: Cooper, Ken (Svc Analysis) [mailto:KPC2 at pge.com] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:06 AM > >>> To: Dave Clark > >>> Subject: Nevada County Energy Consumption > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Good Morning Dave - Per your request is the 2006 gas and electric > >>> consumption for Nevada County. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Natural Gas 10,044 Residential Customers 629,585.4 > >>> DecaTherms > >>> 1,581 Non-Residential Customers 337,936.6 > >>> DecaTherms > >>> > >>> Electricity 36,746 Residential Customers 336,214,505 > >>> Kwh > >>> 5,107 Non-Residential Customers 164,468,216 > >>> Kwh > >>> > >>> Take care, > >>> > >>> Ken Cooper > >>> PG&E > >>> > >>> Ofc - (209) 576-6522 > >>> Cell - (209) 648-1813 > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Energy mailing list > > Energy at apple-nc.org > > http://lists.apple-nc.org/mailman/listinfo/energy > > _______________________________________________ > Energy mailing list > Energy at apple-nc.org > http://lists.apple-nc.org/mailman/listinfo/energy > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.apple-nc.org/pipermail/energy/attachments/20070524/f1ecdcf2/attachment.html From pcurrents at mountainastrologer.com Fri May 25 10:34:17 2007 From: pcurrents at mountainastrologer.com (Tem Tarriktar) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 10:34:17 -0700 Subject: [Energy] $25 Million Distributed for Alternative Fuel Usage Message-ID: <4D33E349-7646-42D7-8436-4B82FA46C2D5@mountainastrologer.com> Hi: This posted today on YubaNet.com today. I looked at the pdf document listing details of all the grant approvals. A lot of biofuel and electric vehicle development money... check it out. http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_57752.shtml From catronics at sbcglobal.net Sat May 26 08:35:11 2007 From: catronics at sbcglobal.net (Cat Cook) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 08:35:11 -0700 Subject: [Energy] WhiteStar info and Tesla's "master plan" Message-ID: <465853AF.9010500@sbcglobal.net> *The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me)* by Elon Musk Tesla's Chairman of the Board ** Excerpt: "Note the term hybrid as applied to cars currently on the road is a misnomer. They are really just gasoline powered cars with a little battery assistance and, unless you are one of the handful who have an aftermarket hack, the little battery has to be charged from the gasoline engine. Therefore, they can be considered simply as slightly more efficient gasoline powered cars. If the EPA certified mileage is 55 mpg, then it is indistinguishable from a non-hybrid that achieves 55 mpg. As a friend of mine says, a world 100% full of Prius drivers is still 100% addicted to oil." See link below for the whole essay. Cat http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/index.php?p=8& From thinkingman at sbcglobal.net Sun May 27 08:26:53 2007 From: thinkingman at sbcglobal.net (M Schultz) Date: Sun, 27 May 2007 08:26:53 -0700 Subject: [Energy] WhiteStar info and Tesla's "master plan" In-Reply-To: <465853AF.9010500@sbcglobal.net> References: <465853AF.9010500@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: Until Tesla provides a vehicle that will compete with The Prius, it's all bravado. The Prius has contributed to reducing the world's carbon footprint. It is a step forward. Let's count our blessings. Marston On May 26, 2007, at 8:35 AM, Cat Cook wrote: > *The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me)* by > Elon Musk > Tesla's Chairman of the Board > ** > Excerpt: > > "Note the term hybrid as applied to cars currently on the road is a > misnomer. They are really just gasoline powered cars with a little > battery assistance and, unless you are one of the handful who have an > aftermarket hack, the little battery has to be charged from the > gasoline > engine. Therefore, they can be considered simply as slightly more > efficient gasoline powered cars. If the EPA certified mileage is 55 > mpg, > then it is indistinguishable from a non-hybrid that achieves 55 > mpg. As > a friend of mine says, a world 100% full of Prius drivers is still > 100% > addicted to oil." > > See link below for the whole essay. > > Cat > > http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/index.php?p=8& > > _______________________________________________ > Energy mailing list > Energy at apple-nc.org > http://lists.apple-nc.org/mailman/listinfo/energy